Discussion With a Liberal Friend

Liberal Friend:
I'm feeling a little Iraqi right now in wanting to throw a shoe at my TV watching these, excuse me, dimwits marching on the Mall in DC with this tea party crap!! Who or what right now is threatening these people's liberties? I want docume...nted proof and links posted showing that HR 3200 covers illegal aliens on health care, because I just clicked on a link of Mark's friend to Mediamatters to see the actual section and it clearly states in the bill that illegal aliens are not to be covered!! Why do folks want to defend their private insurers and HMOs when there are so many stories of denied coverage and battles over preexisting conditions? They put it succintly on Real Time last night that these companies make over 300 billion a year just serving as intermediary between patients and doctors..if a government agency can do it better and save some of that expense and eliminate the obscene for-profit aspect when dealing with peoples' health and lives, then why not let them be the intermediary? Congress holds the purse strings for agencies and we elect/reelect them every 2 to 6 years so THERE'S your accountability!! Who holds the boards and CEOs of these private health insurers accountable? Shareholders who want that profit to keep rolling in!!

Kat the Geekess:
You're drinking the kool-aid again.... Of course there won't be any illegal immigrants covered, he's going to offer them all amnesty. What a voting block 12 million people make.... Chicago Machine at work.


Liberal Friend:
Is there an executive order pending or an HR out there somewhere right now that is going to grant said amnesty or is this heresay? I also heard, and you tea people should be proud, that a pending Supreme Court case may overturn McCain/Feingold provisions that got the soft money out of political campaigns..the right wing is really prostituting the ... Read MoreFirst Amendment thing now..careful as that is a slippery slope toward theocracy and not democracy..the religious right finally figured out how to work around an indifferent and out of power GOP..they are preying on folks' fears again and it is pathetic and shameless but alas very effective, because they know that these particular folks want to be preached to rather than read,think for themselves and form a solid opinion based on facts and not hyperbole!!

DS:
Hey bro! I just sent you an invite to Anne Rice's page. She posts there every day and a lot of the discussions are on the health care issues. Both sides of the issue are pretty well represented. You should check it out.

GN:
"if a government agency can do it better and save some of that expense"

This explains it all. I don't want the government anywhere near my health benefits. I don't want the same people that have shown the inability to manage anything (post office, Medicare, welfare, etc) to come anywhere near my health coverage.

Bob - if you're willing to give up... Read More this to the government, what are you going to give up next? They're taking over private sector business, and this should be alarming to the American people.


DS:
... and I don't want 'em building my CAR either!!!!


Liberal Friend:
You gotta hand it to the post office for getting your letter through the system for 46 cents or so, and the post office uses part timers nowadays and it is a quasi-agency..medicare seems to do well except in not covering enough, so seniors have to get on that C Plus..at least the government is accountable to the people which is more than you can say for some of the less reputable private insurers, but even BCBS can be evil I suppose in some cases..the main issue I have is coverage for wellness and prevention and not cutting people off because it will cost too much..drop the public option IF and only IF the private insurers agree to oversight and regulation like we have over the securities industry..consumer safeguards and guarantees are at the base of the push for a public option and it is not meant to be a slippery slope toward some totalitarian system and loss of freedom..I would worry more about those self-righteous religious zealot vultures taking away your freedoms...


GN:
I will not purchase a vehicle made by Government Motors. Same goes for the UAW. They priced themselves out of the market and they can pay the price for it.


ER:
Bob, they're saying that Illegals won't be covered by insurance because there will be free clinics built for them. It's the Gubment. Read between the lines :).


Liberal Friend:
A point of agreement..I am not THAT progressive..what they have been paying workers to make US autos that are sitting and rusting in lots nationwide is obscene and a big reason why that said worker is the only one who can afford to make payments on one and buy one..

ER:
I buy Nissan because the entire car is assembled in Smyrna, TN. When I buy from them, I put an efficient company to work that pays it's workers good and also puts 30-40 Tennesseans on the assembly line. Ford and Government Motors has their products produced and assembled in Mexico, Brazil, China, Russia, amongst others and then shipped to Detroit for and "American Built" brand. Bullshit. Look under your hoods and find out where your money is going.


ER:
Oh, and I felt "a little Iraqi" when Chairman Maobama was inaguarated. Talk about dimwits!


GN:
LOL @ Bob! I'd hand the post office nothing but a shutdown notice. Government bureauacracy in it's most shining form. Welfare - encouraging people to do nothing for 70 years. Ask my folks how they like Medicare. Bring a lunch. Be prepared to sit and listen about ineptitude for a long while.

GN:
Chairman Maobama! I love it!

Revolution is coming!


Kat the Geekess:
Theocracy? Bob, I have an extremely liberal view of religion.... If you believe in it, you'll have to answer to your actions on this world, not me. I have to answer to my own actions. Do you think I'd be politically conservative if I thought it was a theocracy in the making?

Constitutionally, all the federal government is supposed to do is provide for the common defense and regulate trade between the states. Nothing else. That's why you're seeing people in the street. The federal government is moving further away from the Constitution and it's going too far.


GN:
Preach it, Cyn!

Kat the Geekess:
"One plain fact should outweigh all the words of Barack Obama and all the impressive trappings of the setting in which he says them: He tried to rush Congress into passing a massive government takeover of the nation's medical care before the August recess-- for a program that would not take effect until 2013!" --Thomas Sowell
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/09/08/what_obama_says_vs_what_he_does.html

Here's one reason the people are marching in the streets.....


Liberal Friend:
All I will say right now on this li'l Surge keyboard is to look at the video of these protests and see the ethnic makeup of 99 % of the protesters...they have been in an uproar since January but it IS the president's fault for not getting out in front on this issue early and he HAS been rather arrogant about ramming it through so quickly..but he IS the president..now if he would just govern and mediate this mess once and for all!


Kat the Geekess:
Ummm.... yeah. Like I'm going to trust video shot by the liberal media who will show only what supports their viewpoint; that this is a gathering of crazy old white folks who don't like PrezBO because he's a 'black' man.

You need to ramp up your skepticism gland, dude.


GN:
The majority of Americans DO NOT WANT THIS! That is the issue, Bobby. The color of the skin has nothing to do with it.

Come on man. You can do better than that.


Kat the Geekess:
The guvment is not the answer to all life's problems/hassles/inequalities. Life is not supposed to be fair.

Tell you what: when all the liberal actors/politicians/union bosses/media people start turning down million dollar salaries and living in 1200SF houses to show solidarity with the worker, then I'll listen to them. Until that moment, they're not worth my time.


ER:
Hear Hear!


GN:
Great comment, Cyn. The minute these idiot politicians tell us THEY will give up their great coverage and take the same plan they're trying to shove down our throats, I'll listen.

Those hollyweirdos need to shut their stupid mouths. Biggest bunch of dictator loving communists that's ever been assembled.


ER:
On a lighter note, any celebrity who speaks out against Obama or Democrats for that matter cannot find work in the town anymore......So some voices that would actually make a difference are squelched out of fear of unemployment.

FROM MARK (LEVIN)'S LIBERTY & TYRANNY - A CONSERVATIVE MANIFESTO

FROM MARK'S LIBERTY & TYRANNY - A CONSERVATIVE MANIFESTO

To Purchase the entire book click here

A Conservative Manifesto

1. Taxation

Eliminate the progressive income tax-replace it with a flat income tax or national sales tax-for its purpose is to redistribute wealth, not fund the constitutionally legitimate functions of the federal government.

All residents of the country must be required to pay the tax so they have a stake in limiting its abuse.

Eliminate the automatic withholding of taxes, for it conceals the extent to which the federal government is confiscating income from its citizens.

Eliminate the corporate income tax, for it is nothing more than double taxation on shareholders and consumers, and penalizes wealth and job creation.

Eliminate the death tax, for it denies citizens the right to confer the material value they have created during their lives to whomever they wish, including their family.

All federal income tax increases will require a supermajority vote for three-fifths of Congress.

Limit federal spending each year to less than 20 percent of the gross domestic product.

2. Environment.

Eliminate the special tax-exempt status granted to environmental groups, since they are not nonpartisan charitable foundations.

Eliminate special statutory authority granting environmental groups standing to bring lawsuits on behalf of the public, since their main purpose is to pursue the Statist’s agenda through litigation.

Fight all efforts to use environmental regulations to set governmental industrial policies and diminish the nation’s standard of living, such as “cap-and-trade” to regulate “man-made climate change.”

3. Judges

Limit the Supreme Court’s judicial-review power, which far exceeds the Framer’s intent, by establishing a legislative veto over Court decisions-perhaps a two-thirds supermajority vote of both houses of Congress, not dissimilar from the congressional override authority of a presidential veto.

Eliminate lifetime tenure for federal judges, given the extra-constitutional power they have amassed and their routine intervention in political and policy decisions-which the Constitution leaves to representative branches.

No judicial nominee should be confirmed who rejects the jurisprudence of originalism.

4. The Administrative State

Sunset all “independent” federal agencies each year, subject to Congress affirmatively reestablishing them.

Require federal departments and agencies to reimburse individuals and enterprises for the costs associated with the devaluation of their private property from the issuance of regulations that compromise the use of their property.

Eliminate unions for federal government employees, since the purpose of a civil service system is to promote merit and professionalism over patronage, and the purpose of federal unions is to empower themselves and promote statism.

Reduce the civilian federal workforce by 20 percent or more.

5. Government Education

Eliminate monopoly control of government education by applying the antitrust laws to the National Education Association and American Federation of Teachers; the monopoly is destructive of quality education and competition and is unresponsive to the taxpayers who fund it.

Eliminate tenure for government schoolteachers and college/university professors, making them accountable for the quality of instruction they provide students.

Strip the statist agenda from curricula (such as multiculturalism and global warming) and replace it with the curricula that reinforce actual education and the preservation of the civil society through its core principles.

Eliminate the federal Department of Education, since education is primarily a state and local function.

6. Immigration

Eliminate chain migration, which grants control over immigration policy to aliens and foreign governments, and which the Statist defends to expand his electoral and administrative state constituency.

Secure the nation’s borders and discourage those who violate them-illegal alien and citizen lawbreaker alike-by enforcing the immigration laws.

End multiculturalism, diversity, and bilingualism in public institutions, which beget poverty, animosity and ethnic balkanization; promote assimilation and unity of citizenship, allegiance to American culture, and English as the official language.

7. Entitlements

Social Security is going bankrupt. Medicare is going bankrupt. Medicaid is going bankrupt. These programs and others have accumulated more than $50 trillion in IOUs due end payable by subsequent generations. Educate the young people about the intergenerational trap the Statist has laid for them-which will steal their liberty, labor, opportunities, and wealth-and build a future electoral force for whom the elixir of entitlements is understood as a poisonous snake oil. These programs were created in politics and will have to addressed in politics. Only in this way can they be contained, limited and reformed.

Fight all efforts to nationalize the health-care system. National health care is the mother of all entitlement programs, for through it the Statist controls not only the material wealth of the individual but his physical well-being. Remind the people that politicians and bureaucrats, about whom they are already cynical, will ultimately have the final say over the choice of doctors, hospitals and treatment-meaning the system will be politicized and bureaucratized. Remind them that this human experiment has been tried and has failed in places like Britain and Canada, where patients have been subjected to arbitrary treatment decisions, long waiting periods for lifesaving surgeries, antiquated medical technologies, the denial of high-cost pharmaceuticals available elsewhere, and the inefficient rationing of health care generally. And remind them that despite past utopian promises, the Statist rarely delivers.

8. Foreign Policy and Security

Ensure that all foreign policy decisions are made for the purpose of preserving and improving American society.

Reject all treaties, entanglements, institutions, and enterprises that have as their purpose the supplantation of America’s best interests, including its physical, cultural, economic, and military sovereignty, to an amorphous “global” interest.

Ensure that America remains the world’s superpower. Ensure that at all times America’s military forces are prepared for war to dissuade attacks, encourage peace, and, if necessary, win any war.

9. Faith

Oppose all efforts to denude the nation of its founding justification-that is, God-given unalienable, natural rights that the government can neither confer on the individual nor deny him. The Statist seeks the authority to do both, which explains his contempt for, or misuse of, faith. Moreover, faith provides the moral order that ties one generation to the next, and without which the civil society cannot survive.

10. The Constitution

Demand that all public servants, elected or appointed, at all times uphold the Constitution and justify their public acts under the Constitution.

Oppose all efforts to “constitutionalize” the statist agenda.

Eliminate limits on and rationing of political free speech through unconstitutional “campaign finance” laws, which benefit incumbent politicians, the media, unions, and other Statist-related groups. Any American citizen or group of American citizens should be free to contribute to candidates as they wish, as long as the source, amount, and recipient of the contributions are made known.

Defeat all efforts to unconstitutionally regulate the content of political speech on broadcast outlets, such as radio. The Statist now seeks to consolidate the power he has accumulated by silencing noncompliant voices through a variety of schemes that would regulate broadcast content.

President Reagan said, “Freedom is never more then one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”

We Conservatives need to get busy.

http://www.marklevinshow.com/Article.asp?id=1474931&spid=32364