I'm pro-choice (and I'm not going to argue with anyone about it-I'm not changing my mind), but I also support these folks.
Might need to head up to the Cullman store and see what they've got.
Hobby shop chain faces backlash for stance against ObamaCare
Oklahoma-based Hobby Lobby filed the suit with the U.S. District court, alleging that the Health and Human services mandate should not be enforced upon them because it is unconstitutional but critics are responding, saying that the company is denying basic human rights to its employees.
Young Yankee Friend You support people who don't believe in science and want to be counted as a "religious employer" just because the company owner goes to a whacko church?
Kat The Geekess How is a conservative Baptist church 'wacko'? They're free to practice their religion in this country, like you are, like I am, like everybody that wants to pray before a HS football game. And like Chick-Fil-A, their employees know the score when they go to work there.
Teacher Friend They are free to believe whatever they want. They are not free to impose their beliefs on anyone, including their employees and their private medical decisions.
If that is offensive to them, perhaps they should close their for-profit business, and do volunteer work.
Young Yankee Friend They do not actually have the right to impose their beliefs on their employees, that's the whole point of the law. And they're whacko because they don't believe in science and they think birth control pills cause abortions.
Kat The Geekess The employees who work there know the corporate culture. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads to make them work there. I bet those working there don't have a BIT of problem with the way the company is run.
From the article:
"The company does not object to providing coverage that includes birth control pills, but refuses to provide or pay for two specific abortion-inducing drugs such as the so-called "morning after" pill, because Green's "most deeply held religious belief" is that life beginning at conception, the family said in a statement released through its attorneys."
So, if an employee wants an abortion, they pay for it themselves. I've had many health insurance policies through employers that wouldn't pay for termination of pregnancy.
Kat The Geekess How are they imposing their beliefs? When I worked at the hospital, there was scheduled prayer over the intercom every day. When I was in HS, one of the students broadcast a prayer over the intercom every day-my only complaint was the timing (which he graciously changed). There was prayer before every football game, every band and theatre performance. I bowed my head with the rest, but my thoughts are my own.
The First Amendment says that we have freedom of religion and the FREE expression thereof and Congress can't take that away. And if you think they should be shut down, then are you going to shut down all the Christian bookstores that are out there? I'm willing to bet that they have daily prayer.
Teacher Friend They are selective about their employees and outspoken about their beliefs and outspoken about their corporate culture.
If they are concerned that one of their Conservative Christian employees may find herself in the position that the morning after pill may be her only option, they should look into solving THAT problem.
Minimum wage, benefits to cover family members being prohibitively expensive...
And they may want to read up on what the morning after pill *actually* does. Because it isn't an abortion pill.
I -DON'T- think they should be shut down. I -NEVER- said that. But they are running a profitable business in the United States. They FREE to EXPRESS whatever they damn well want. But they cannot IMPOSE or FORCE it on anyone.
I said that if they wish to operate only in the bubble of their beliefs and avoid conflicts of having a business in the public sector then they may CHOOSE to drop out.
That's a choice that many homeschoolers make.
Kat The Geekess So let the employee pay for it out of her funds. Insurance didn't cover The Teen's braces. I paid for them. Should the Feds have forced the insurance to cover those braces?
I -DON'T- think they should be shut down. I -NEVER- said that. But they are running >a profitable business in the United States. They FREE to EXPRESS whatever they damn well want. But they cannot IMPOSE or FORCE it on anyone.
And again, how are they imposing or forcing it?
Teacher Friend It is basic medical coverage, not dental. Apples/Oranges.
They may not meddle in a decision that is only between a woman and her doctor. By picking and choosing which medical treatments they'll allow their employees to access, they are hoping to impose their beliefs and misinformation about how that pill works.
They have a right to challenge the law. And they should lose.
Kat The Geekess They are not meddling. At all. But I don't see why they should be responsible for paying for it. No more than I see why a Catholic institution should be required to pay for such services. If you don't like the insurance benefits/coverage the employer provides, you are always free to pay for your own insurance.
Teacher Friend On the other hand, I don't really get the boycott.
I understand the Chick-fil-a boycott.
It wasn't just their beliefs, they were funneling millions of dollars into, what *I* consider a hate group. I won't split hairs about whether the owners are hateful themselves. I choose to not spend my money where it will be transferred over to a hate group.
But these Hobby Lobby folk are peacefully challenging a law. Which they have every right to do. How does my buying a model airplane kit effect that? Not at all.
Teacher Friend They offer a benefit though Whatever Insurance. That is an earned benefit of that employee. They WOULDN'T be paying for it. Nobody is asking them to give their employes gift certificates to Abortions-R-Us. But they can't meddle in their medical decisions.
It is NO DIFFERENT than if an employee were to use their Hobby Lobby salary to pay out of pocket for the morning after pill. Except that at minimum wage, there's a good chance they wouldn't have the money in time.
Kat The Geekess A company paying for the insurance of the employees is not an "earned" benefit, it's a really nice perk. I've worked places where I had to pay the total cost of my insurance. I've also worked for companies that 'self-insured'. I've worked for companies that covered the entire cost of my insurance and those that I split the cost of the insurance. The only place I've worked where I was required to have insurance was when I was employed by the hospital.
"Hobby Lobby Stores Inc. said Monday that the company is bumping up the minimum wage to $13 per hour for full-time hourly employees and $9 per hour for part-time hourly employees."
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/news/2012/04/16/hobby-lobby-increasing-the-minimum-pay.html
Teacher Friend Cookies in the lounge are a perk.
Health insurance is an *earned* benefit, not a treat the employer gives out of the kindness of their heart and out of the employer's pocket. It makes the competitive in hiring the conservative family types they desire.
"Obamacare" requires basic medical coverage for companies meeting a minimum size. Who gets to define what basic is? Not employers.
I think their position on the morning after pill is grossly misinformed, but I don't think it's extreme. I'm sorry to apply the slippery slope, but where is the line for employers meddling in medical decisions? Can they choose to not cover contraceptives all together? What about refusing to cover treatment for an STD? After all, an STD is a natural consequence of promiscuity given by God. Right?
Nope. Sorry. Employers should not get to define what is basic medical care if they wish to operate in the public sector. And with good reason.
Young Yankee Friend If it's a self-insured plan, they may technically be paying for it. Most employers of any decent size self-insure these days. But the morning after pill does NOT cause abortions, so there is no scientific basis for their belief. And at least in what I read, they were considering regular BC pills in that same category too. They can challenge the law if they want, I don't believe they will be successful, but I don't support their desire to control the reproductive choices of their employees. I don't even think bonafide religious employers should be able to do this, though I understand the law does allow it. The law says (at this time), you don't have to offer medical insurance, but if you do, you can't exclude coverage for birth control. Eventually, I think the law will require them to offer it. But the idea is that the burden to pay for BC should not be shifted back to the woman who pays her premiums for her insurance, or who works the hours required if the premiums are fully paid by the employer, it should be covered like every other medical treatment that she chooses to get. Women should have access to birth control if they want it, because the cost to society when women can't afford it is much higher.
Kat The Geekess Please explain how they are meddling. If a woman wants the Oh-No! pill, then she can pay for it. Her having to pay for it out-of-pocket is not the company infringing on her rights. The company has no say on how she spends her money.
Kat The Geekess You keep saying this. You do realize what 'public sector' means, right?
"The public sector, sometimes referred to as the state sector or the government sector, is a part of the state that deals with either the production, ownership, sale, provision, delivery and allocation of goods and services by and for the government or its citizens, whether national, regional or local/municipal."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_sector
Last time I checked, this company was not owned or operated by the government. That makes them 'private sector'.
"In economics, the private sector is that part of the economy, sometimes referred to as the citizen sector, which is run by private individuals or groups, usually as a means of enterprise for profit, and is not controlled by the state. By contrast, enterprises that are part of the state are part of the public sector; private, non-profit organizations are regarded as part of the voluntary sector."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_sector
Teacher Friend Doh! Damnit. You're right. I am using the wrong term.
The are not a non-profit. They conduct business with and receive money from the general public. They're not enclosed on a Conservative Christian only island where medical science does not exist.
Their employees, male and female, pay premiums for health insurance. They should be able to use it as they and their medical professionals see fit.
Kat The Geekess Read your health insurance COB. You'll see what isn't covered and what is. You'd be surprised. If it's not covered, you pay out-of-pocket. Some plans don't cover vision. Some don't cover dental. Some don't cover mental health-I've not seen any that have any kind of parity with physical health vs mental health coverage. But if your insurance doesn't cover it, then you buy a supplemental policy. You find other insurance elsewhere. Then you're NOT dependent on what insurance plan your employer offers. The employer doesn't matter then, because you are paying for the plan you want. Like my auto insurance; I have full comprehensive on one vehicle and liability only on the other. If I purchase my own health insurance, I can decide what kind of coverage I need, not what the employer offers in its plan.
As far as this: "The are not a non-profit. They conduct business with and receive money from the general public."
That's what having a business is all about. Is it any of the PUBLIC's business how a business owner spends HIS money?
